Holy Hardened Bolts Batman! (Extraction Experts Comment Here Please)

"JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t" (jawzx2) 08/19/2018 at 16:50 • Filed to: wrenching

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I’m on the last roller that needs to be dis assembled in order to replace all failed bea rings and then reassemble the baler... and I have hit a problem. F our problems. Four very, very, very hard problems.

7/32nds? who the fuck uses 7/32nds heads on an application like this?

This particular section shows signs of previous failed attempts at disassembly , notably one welded-over bolt (who knows what’s under there) and one that had been partially drilled. I have been applying heat and penetrating oil to the two bolts with in-tact heads, so far fruitlessly, but I was being patient with them...

I’m not excited about taking the angle grinder to the welded one... but I decided while I’m waiting for the penetrating oil and heat to (hopefully) work, I’d finish drilling out that partially-drilled bolt.

You can see that I succeeded in making the already existing hole shiny. That’s about ALL I succeeded at.

I quickly discovered why it was only partially drilled out.

F irst I killed the left-hand bit in my shitty extractor kit. Not really a surprise.

T hen I killed a cheap Ryobi bit. Also not surprised about this.

T hen I killed a decent Milwaukee bit. Hmmm, these things have proven to be pretty robust in the past, but maybe all the metal drilling I’ve done with them previously was a contributor.

Then I killed a pretty nice DeWalt branded bit that was kinda expensive and sold in a single pack, as opposed to part of a kit.

uh oh.

T his was a sharp, fresh, high-quality (though not tungsten) bit and in the past these things (not this exact bit, but others from the same line) have cut through 1/4" steel plate like butter, multip le times, without signs of slowing down after 10 holes .

whoever was here before me gave up, and now I see why. These damn things have too-small heads and are hard as fuck. not just hard, but REALLY hard.

I’m torn as to wh e ther my next step is to buy another expensive bit and have at it again, or at tack it with the angle grinder ( or a die grinder) , or attempt to weld a lever to it... I sort of think the welded-over one on the other side might have been the ultimate fallout of a previous attempt to do that...

Oppo bolt- removal- expert suggestions?

LOREM IPSUM > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 08/19/2018 at 17:02

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My first thought was torching it to o blivion, then hitting them with an impact... But that’s of no help for the drilled one, and really, might not be the best course at all since I honestly am not sure. Good luck regardless though.

Levitas > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 08/19/2018 at 17:11

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2 thoughts:

Being on a baler, could it be they are reverse threaded? Could be why that one is only partially drilled and welded, PO was drilling when it loosened and backed out, and now has to weld it on to get it to stay because there was no method to torque. Also explains only 7/32 hex, not much torque is needed when going the right direction.

Second if normal threaded: these do appear to be hardened bolts, so you’ll need to slow spindle speed on the drill way down, probably as low as it will go. We’re talking maybe 500rpm maximum to make sure it doesn’t ruin the bit. Would also help to be more rigid, a small cordless drill is worst, a beefier corded unit is better, and one that has a magbase is best.

Edit: when I say 500rpm, this is for a 1/4" drill, roughly. 3/8" drill would be ~400rpm max.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > LOREM IPSUM 08/19/2018 at 17:11

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The damn things only have a 7/32nds allen socket, and not a very deep one at that. I am loath to put my 1/2" impact to a head that small, and I already torched them and went at them with the little impact. I don’t have Oxy-acetylene, or MAP, so I only used propane... Hence the penetrating oil too... Any way, the propane and little impact did nothing but make noise and set the grass on fire.

LOREM IPSUM > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 08/19/2018 at 17:16

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*looks around*

Is it insured?

J/k. Good luck buds, that sounds like a real headache. I wish you lots of luck, but I've got nothing helpful unfortunately.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Levitas 08/19/2018 at 17:21

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1) its the same carrier as the others, just with countersunk allen- screws instead of plain hex-head bolts. No such luck on the left-hand thread (the parts diagram lists the same part number for all the bearing carriers)

2) G ood info. Don’t have access to a mag-drill, but I can run an extension cord out to it for the Big Drill. Sadly its far too tall a piece to fit in any drill-press I have access to. I can’t get the belts off without removin g this roller either, so I ’m stuck with an extremely unweildy piece... I wonder if the local rent-all has mag-drills?

Levitas > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 08/19/2018 at 17:34

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Bummer on not being left thread.

Just make sure the RPM stays low on the big drill and let the bit do the cutting. Some oil (pretty much anything) wouldn’t hurt either.

Best of luck!

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 08/19/2018 at 17:36

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Drill the out instead of extraction then re tap the holes and use over the counter grade 8 bolts.

MM54 > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 08/19/2018 at 17:53

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Are you using blood as cutting lubricant?

Would it be possible to weld a nut onto the face of the head, then wrench/impact at that? Bonus for the heat to help break free corrosion and what not in the threads.

DipodomysDeserti > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 08/19/2018 at 20:12

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JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > MM54 08/19/2018 at 20:16

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That’s not a terrible idea...

Not blood, just red cutting oil

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 08/19/2018 at 20:22

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I think new bolts are a given at this point. They will surely be something more ductile... Or maybe stainless... 

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 08/19/2018 at 21:22

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Can you whack the 7/32 allen with a hammer? If I remember correctly, all hex keys are tool steel, so it should be able to take a good whack.

Please correct this oppo before folllowing. 

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 08/19/2018 at 21:38

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It’s so thin it just goes ~BOING~ and bounces back without imparting much torque to the bolt. Like I said, who the fuck uses 7/32 allens in an application like this?? It should be AT LEAST 5/16ths (8mm), better yet 3/8ths (10mm). You can put real torque on one that size. You can clearly see that the allen socket is under-sized for the bolt and head diameter.

oldmxer > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 08/19/2018 at 23:35

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if you can determine the diameter of the threads you can buy several cheap masonry bits and with some cutting oil use relatively high speed and light pressure until you get rid of the hex hole. since your bit is the same as the bolt you then drill with a little slower speed and a li ttle more pressure and the head of the bolt will end up turning with the drill. if you get all the bolt heads off you can remove the section and use vise grips to twist out the now ex posed headless studs. when drilling hardened stuff like this you might need to pilot drill the hole with a smaller bit once you have the hex part gone. masonry bits aren’t sharpened to cut steel so they don’t bite into the steel well. you can buy carbide tipped bits for steel but they cost a lot more and should only be used after you have the hex hole gone

Die-Trying > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 08/20/2018 at 00:03

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fire wrench........

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 08/20/2018 at 16:26

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Looks like a prime candidate for welding a nut on. Get the biggest nut that fits within the O.D. of that bolt, turn the heat way up, and fill the center of the bolt all the way up through the nut until it's flush. Boom. Now you don't have to deal with Allen stuff.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 08/20/2018 at 18:00

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T ried that. Used 3/4" nuts ( m aybe 7014 was the wrong rod to use?) but I couldn’t get them to stick hard enough, the 1/2" impact just twisted them off at the weld every time.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 08/21/2018 at 02:16

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D o you have a torch you can heat the bolt with before welding?

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 08/21/2018 at 09:13

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just propane...